358 norma magnum vs 35 whelennicole alexander bio

Where the .338 Winchester drives its 250-grain bullet to 2650 fps, the .358 Norma beats that figure by 100 fps or so, delivering over 4,200 ft.-lbs. The norma would cost more if I had to open the bolt face. The body of the .350 Magnum measures 0.517 inches at the base, smaller than the 0.589-inch base of the .416 Rigby. Can Coolers | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. A monster buck is different from a fork-horn or a fat doe. Norma offers factory ammunition, E.R. Contributor Brad Fenson takes to the grill, to cook up some delicious venison burgers. In many areas a 100-pound deer might be normal, but mule deer and whitetail bucks exist that are triple that size. Sometimes you get a point-blank shot; other times you need to stretch it a bit farther. from my E.R. A cross-section of loads for the .358 Norma Magnum include the (1) Sierra 125-grain JHP, (2) Sierra 170 FMJ, (3) Speer 180, (4) 200-grain cast bullet and a (5) Sierra 200 roundnose. I believe it never will. With a 200-grain bullet at 2460 f.p.s., it is a heavy-hitter on whitetails. This means that the momentum of a rifle's reaction will exactly equal the momentum of the bullet and powder gasses ejected from the barrel. Think of the .358 Norma Magnum as the chunky cousin of the .338 Winchester Magnum; not quite as svelte or popular, but equally effective in a fight. The .350 Magnum has a case length of 2.742 inches, and an overall cartridge length 3.44 inches, so it will feel at home in a magnum-length receiver. With a 200-grain bullet the .35 Whelen actually shoots a bit flatter than the .30-06 Sprg. The .358 Win. With cast bullets, A-5744 and Trail Boss are usually the best choices, although H-4895 is a good powder for midvelocity hunting loads. Got a nice .270 Win MTN Rifle donor 700. I'm sending my 270 tikka off to JES rebore to get it punched out to 35 whelen. Moving down a notch and comparing the .35 Whelen (250 grain bullet at a MV of 2400 fps) to the .30-06 (220 grains at 2410 fps), which have nearly identical case capacity, we find that the optimum game range (OGW) on 1000 pound animals is 10 yards for the .30-06 and 100 yards for the .35 Whelen. Make no mistake, the .30-06 is a powerful cartridge, but it doesnt beat you to death and can be built in the seven- to eight-pound range. Food for thought, is it not? Hunting Shack 358NORMA2N Game King 358 Norma 225 gr Sierra GameKing Spitzer Boat-Tail - 20rd Box. Somehow, years ago, I got the notion that it is not prudent to be opening the bolt face of a 700 from standard (270W) to magnum (358N). Heres a look at 10 of the most flexible long-range hunting cartridges. But there is another Rigby cartridge, vastly overlooked even among rifle cranks, but which was at one time as popular as the .375 H&H Magnum: the .350 Rigby Magnum. The .356 Win. These include some of my favorites, such as the .358 Winchester and .45-70. Normas original spec sheet for the .358 Norma Magnum when it was released in 1959 indicated the cartridges ballistics. 10 GA. Out of stock View Details . Norma Projektilfabrik answered Winchesters designs with a pair of their own: the .308 Norma Magnum and its slightly older brother, the .358 Norma Magnum. The .35 Whelen is a necked up medium bore wildcat cartridge that was created by necking up a .30-06 Springfield case which is famously overpowered for the 30-caliber bullet it propels. But in my experience, if you can cover that 300-yard window with confidence youre in good shape. So are the .350 Remington Magnum and .358 Norma Magnum. Powders such as IMRs Trail Boss, Accurates 5744 and IMRs discontinued SR-4759 all work with lighter bullets, and sometimes accuracy is very good, even if the gas seal is not. It was predictable that the .356 Win. A 358Norma is a good fit for this action. So if you have a .375 (or larger) and a yen to take it elk hunting, be my guest. This wonderful efficiency of the .35 calibers is especially remarkable when one considers that most all of these rounds are verging on obsolescence today. Remington loads a 200-grain PSP Core-Lokt bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2775 f.p.s. 200-grain bullet to almost 2500 f.p.s. From the .35 Winchester (1903), .35 Remington (1906) and .351 Winchester Self-Loading (1907) to the later .358 Winchester (1955) and .350 Remington Magnum (1965), there has always been at least one .35-caliber cartridge in use. Meanwhile, the .358 Norma fizzled, for lack of a better term, because rifles were not readily available, ammunition was expensive and hard to get, and it found itself in direct competition with one of the great American cartridges of the twentieth century, Winchesters .338 Magnum. Mark Bansner is making one for me: synthetic stock on a left-hand Sako action. I have built all 3 several times for various customers and owned both the 358 Norma and the 9.3X62. It arrived with three other cartridges designed to compete with Winchesters popular lever-action lineup. With its spitzer-pointed bullets, the .358 is a good medium- to long-range cartridge with capabilities out to 250 yards on big game. Like most of the children of the Holland & Holland parents, the .358 Norma uses its shoulder for headspacing, rather than the belt, as do the .375 and .300 H&H. From the Green Goblin (a bolt-action rifle I built on a Remington action), both will produce groups that are sub-minute-of-angle. The bullet was the then-new Trophy Bonded 250-grain Bear Claw. Since lack of a gas seal in a low-pressure load is more of a nuisance than a danger, it can be ignored if you dont mind the soot. After ten years of not getting drawn I sold it it was too much gun for most of my hunting. Yet, that bore diameter produces some of the best hunting cartridges available. The 6.5mm Creedmoor and the old 6.5x55 are sound minimal choices, adequate to 300 yards. As well, most bullet manufacturers produce soft, 200-grain roundnosed bullets intended for the .35 Remington, and these fit a wide range of uses. The .35 Caliber Cartridge Family(.357 Mag., .35 Remington, .356 Winchester, .358 Winchester, .35 Whelen, .350 Rem. In fact, the recoil of the .358 Norma Magnum, at about 35 ft. lbs. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Bertram Brass from Australia is a good source when you can get it, and Quality Cartridge makes a run of .350 Rigby every few years, but you could be waiting a considerable amount of time. I did kill a ton of squirels with pistol bullets and a little 700X, it would shoot little cloverleafs at 50 yrds. Every time I use it I ask myself, Whats not to like? Beats me, but nobody liked it enough to keep it in production. Copyright 2003, 2012 by Chuck Hawks. Most Professional Hunters agree that a bullet with a S.D. My 35 Whelen will run 250gr partitions at 2700 fps with power pro 2000 powder. This was not the factory bullet from the 1960s, with its mild-steel jacket, but a later one. Gun guys recognize the potential in the .358. Today, rifles can be made very light, but that can also be overdone because light rifles are whippy and hard to control when youre out of breath and have to settle in for a quick shot. It was verry expensive to shoot, lots of powder and expensive bullets and brass. Bottles & 12-oz. Mag. You can start with the 6.5mms. Let's also compare the .358 with the other end of the spectrum. Back in the late 70's I picked up a custom 1903 in 358 Norma Mag, awesome rifle, very accurate and it put a thump on deer, I bought it hopping to get a moose tag back in MN, never did and sold the rifle. was included in that party is a mystery, as it had no Winchester counterpart. It is a good choice for shooters who are very sensitive to recoil, since its free recoil energy is only about 4.5 ft. lbs. plowed fresh ground. and the .32 Win. Its safe to say that of all the .358 Norma Magnum rifles in existence, there are more custom than factory ones, and this makes it tricky to load for in another way. Is the .358 Norma Magnum a cartridge destined to make a huge comeback? Ive seen many elk taken cleanly with a .270 Winchester, and my own longest shot on an elk was on a big New Mexico bull at 400 yards using a .270 Winchester with a 150-grain Nosler Partitionone step and down. I have never lost an elk, and I do not recall ever tracking one for recovery. Twenty years ago, I might have said .338 Winchester Magnum was the perfect choice for elk. Perhaps thats why it has survived. I have one, and I like it a lot. I would also expect it to handle anything in North America from deer to the big bears. .470 Nitro Express. but it does have the 22" barrel and the irons , looks and feels like a MTN rifle to me. was designed for the American market, but sadly no American riflemaker ever chambered the cartridge in a cataloged gun. The .318 Westley Richards was a highly popular choice at that time, and it drives a 250-grain bullet of .330-inch diameter, with a SD of 0.328, and the .375 Holland & Holland uses a 300-grain bullet of nominal diameter with a SD of 0.305; both are renowned for their penetration. As a "stopper" for use on dangerous game the .358 Norma is clearly superior to the .300 Magnums. Copyright 2000-2023 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved. The .358 Norma established its reputation in high-end hunting rifles like this Schultz & Larsen Model 65DL. Heres a detailed look at each step of the process. it is complicated further by a requirement for different burning rate powders. The barrel is a full 22 inches, like it always should have been, but the foolish design with the huge shark fin front sight turned hunters off, and it was dropped. Maybe it's a regular BDL? In 1965 Remington took it to the next level with the introduction of the Model 600 Magnum Carbine. Its often thought that if they had it would have gained popularity over the .338 Win. The first time I ever hunted with a .358 Norma Magnum, it was a custom rifle built on a Mauser Mark X action. The bullet went in behind the near shoulder, struck the far shoulder from the inside, and the blue bull hit the ground with a thud. But in those countries where the lighter cartridges are legal for the cats, the .350 Rigby Magnum is just about perfect. Kevin Steele, Publisher of Petersen's HUNTING talks with JJ Reich of HEVI-Shot about the new offerings for 2023. We've got you covered. .450 Nitro Express .17 Hornet 7mm STW 6.8 Western .375 Ruger .223 Remington6.5x55 Swedish .416 Remington Magnum .300 Winchester Short Magnum 28 Nosler 6.5 PRC .22 WMR .458 Winchester Magnum .204 Ruger .22 Hornet .280 Ackley Improved .240 Weatherby Magnum .458 Lott.264 Winchester Magnum.348 Winchester.33 Nosler.260 Remington.30-30 Winchester.416 Rigby.358 Norma Magnum.22 LR7mm-08 Remington8mm Remington Magnum.338 Federal.224 Valkyrie.338-06 A-Square9.3x62mm Mauser.257 Weatherby Magnum.45-70 Government.300 H&H Magnum.25-06 Remington.30-06 Springfield6.5 Creedmoor.300 Remington Ultra Magnum7mm Remington Magnum.470 Nitro Express.280 Remington.300 Winchester Magnum.270 Winchester.222 Remington.45 ACP.404 Jeffery.44 Remington Magnum.41 Remington Magnum.243 Winchester.338 Winchester Magnum.357 S&W Magnum6.5-284 Norma8x57 Mauser.38 Smith & Wesson Special7x57mm Mauser9mm Luger.35 Whelen.454 Casull.375 H&H Magnum.45 Colt.22-250 Remington10mm Auto.308 Winchester. The case capacity of the .350 Rigby is very similar to that of the .358 Norma Magnum, and the performance is likewise similar. Had the .358 Norma Magnum been chambered in an American rifle, or at least promoted by an American company, the popularity of the cartridge may have been much greater than it is. Mag.They have almost identical case capacity, but the .358 Norma Mag. Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. was initially chambered in Remingtons Model 8 autoloader, soon followed by the Model 14 pump-action. The .35 Whelen is a powerful medium-bore rifle cartridge that does not require a magnum action or a magnum bolt-face. In a letter written to friend Townsend Whelen during early 1920s, Leslie Simpson-- one of the first Americans to become a professional hunter in Africa--opined that the hunting world needed a .35 caliber cartridge . Boltface would have to be altered for the Norma. Shaw rifles 24-inch barrel. of muzzle energy. Follow along to see exactly how. Theres more to success than merely landing a good one on the chin. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. 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The Norma factory load, with Normas own 250-grain bullet, performed poorly, coming apart in the chest cavity. Synthetic stocks arent always lighter than wood, but they are stronger and more stable, and elk hunting can be hard on rifles. In both cartridges, versatility is limited more by the narrow range of bullets available than by any other factor. Any of these will handle just about any big game one might hunt with a .358 Norma, where you want to employ its ample knockdown power. Cartridges of .25 caliber and below are not ideal elk cartridges, especially if a big bull is a potential. With the best loads, my Remington Model 700 is one-hole accurate. This is because it was discontinued in the mid-1970s, and reintroduced by Remington in 2003. in a rimmed cartridge that would work in a lever-action rifle. Sadly, my favorite bullet diameter, the .35 caliber, doesnt even rate a blip on the American shooters radar screen. It has never failed me. There is certainly no lack of .358-inch diameter bullets to choose from but brass is limited. and a 250-grain Partition load with a muzzle velocity of 2550 f.p.s. The .358 Norma Mag. Not only that, many different bullet moulds were made for casting .358 bullets in some of the most fanciful shapes. With the 250-grain bullet, it's better than the .30-06 on heavy game at close ranges. In Johanssons case, disdain for serious training left him vulnerable when the superbly conditioned Patterson came back a year later, gave him a dazzling boxing lesson and reclaimed the title. Can't really imagine one cartridge doing anything the other couldn't, though the availability of bigger bullets and way more factory ammo (if wanted) are definite pluses for the Mauser. The .300 Rem. The .338-inch fans cite the advantage of the higher sectional density figures, while the .358-inch camp favors the better frontal diameter of the larger bore. 9.3x62 boots 320gr Woodleigh protected points and weldcore round noses out at 2400 fps with RL-17. factory load is a 250-grain Oryx bullet listed with a muzzle velocity of 2723 f.p.s. zero-we see that contrary to popular belief, a 35-caliber can be a long-range cartridge. The .358 has 24 percent more energy at the muzzle than the .300 Win. was simply a .308 Win. Too bad Ingemar Johansson was not so well equipped. So when it comes to penetrating thick hide and heavy bone, one could see where the .350 Rigby could benefit from a heavier bullet, say a premium 250-grain with a SD of .279. The original Schultz & Larsens were sold without iron sights, and they were installed on my rifle afterward. Looks like I'll do a Whelen. That being said, with much wider availability, and the higher . I'd go with the 35 whelen. Released in 1959though there were no factory chambered rifles or factory loaded ammunition available for the new cartridgeNorma offered chamber reamers and new component brass for its new brainchild. Honestly, the concept of being overgunned is somewhat mystifying to me, provided you can place the shot. Even so, most experienced deer hunters have pretty good ideas on appropriate rifles. The numerous magnum .30s are also excellent, but they deliver more recoil. Thats the primary game for many of us, but one size doesnt fit all. The .25 Rem., .30 Rem. The .358 Norma Mag. It was introduced in the bolt-action Model 70 in which it was trustworthy, but boring. I would never argue that a .243 Winchester with a good bullet placed well, or certainly a .25-06 with a tough, heavy bullet, cant do the job. Avoid quick-opening bullets, especially match bullets; instead, choose controlled-expansion designs intended for hunting larger game. My vote is for the .35 Whelen. The long accepted story was that James V. Howe developed the cartridge in 1922 and named it in honor of his friend, gunwriter Col. Townsend Whelen. While I generally prefer the former over the latter, I think that both choices are effective. Hunting Shack 35WHELEN1N Game King 35 Whelen 225 gr Sierra GameKing Spitzer Boat-Tail - 20rd Box. Id mate it with a good 180-grain bullet, top it with a one-inch-tube scope (to save weight), and go elk hunting. Have all three, and have not shot any of em My medium is a 9,3x62. Nosler offers the .350 Rem. Released in 1908, the .350 Rigby Magnum is an entirely original design, with no parent cartridge. However, Winchesters .338 Magnum proved to be the darling of not only those bound for the 49th state, but for those hunting elk and moose at lower latitudes. The origins of the .35 Whelen are controversial even today. 358 norma mag is a rarer bird but as I understand fire forming 300 win mag brass an easy way to feed it. Shaw rifle's 24-inch barrel.. In 1968 the 600 Magnum was replaced by the Model 660 Magnum, which featured a 20-inch barrel, but it was never a big seller, and Remington dropped the rifles. lbs. And, as any fan of the .35-caliber cartridges knows, there are quite a few bullet weights to choose from within the caliber. Its also worth noting that, in spite of its relative obscurity, the cartridge appears in many of the most recent loading manuals, including Normas own, a worthwhile addition to anyones reloading library. The .45-70 is another very popular cartridge. .50 Beowulf. In the 80s, when Jack Carter was making his Trophy Bonded Bearclaw bullet by hand, I did some elk hunting with the 240-grain .375 version. Mag. If you happen to have a .35 and don't mind the extra recoil, there is no denying that it will flat get the job done. Included in that have been a whole bunch of deer, hogs and a bear or two. Most rifle elk hunting is not like bowhunting during the bugling season. Thinking of a medium bore with a bit of thump.9.3 x 62 holds some exotic mystique for me being its use on African large game but I am thinking realistically .366 cant be that much of an advantage over .358 can it? Can Coolers | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. was also the only cartridge of that original Remington family that was based on a different parent case. Your at the old delema again: does 200 fps matter to the deer. Heres a detailed look at each step of the process. and .358 Norma Mag.). Among the .35 caliber cartridges popular in the United States, the .358 offered a definite step up in performance; the .35 Remingtonthat popular woods rifleis much slower than the .358, and though the .35 Whelen has been among us since 1922, it would remain a wildcat until 1988. From a 12 twist bore, accuracy sweet spots for light bullets include 2950fps with 180 grain bullets, 2925fps with 200 grain bullets, before normalizing with 225 grain bullets at 2900fps. If you handload your ammunition, it will make feeding a .358 Norma that much easier, just realize you wont find ammunition at a general store, or even at most gun shops, for that matter. The fortunate few who own them want to keep them, and these are the core admirers who make it worth Normas while to continue offering brass and loaded ammunition. Ruger briefly chambered the M77 rifle in .35 Whelen. All rights reserved. This is in sharp contrast to the overwhelming success of the .357/9mm handgun cartridges, whose popularity dates right to the beginning of the self-contained cartridge era. can drive the same weight bullet a bit faster. The .35 (.358) caliber has never really gotten a serious toehold here, although the occasional item like the .35 Whelen, .350 Remington Magnum, or .358 Winchester roils the waters every now and again. I am not into the current long-range fad, especially on powerful animals like elk. Why the public abandoned it so quickly is a mystery to me. There was a time when I questioned the adequacy of the .270 for elk. All in, it weighed over 11 pounds, which is too heavy. X-Vision Optics long-range ImpactThermal Scope (TS300) boasts a 640 x 480 thermal sensor that can detect big game well past 3,000 yards. 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Opening up a boltface on a standard action is NOT a difficult job for a decent gunsmith and does not affect the strength or viability of the action one WHIT. Kevin Steele of Petersen's HUNTING is with Dawn Wehunt of Rock River Arms INC. learning about the new Ascendant platform. We argue cartridges and calibers endlessly, but bullet choice matters. Spl. The cartridge would be championed by Denys Finch Hatton (of Out of Africa fame), John Pondoro Taylor and Pete Pearson, and would be used by Baron Bror von Blixen-Fineke as well. It never got up. These were, primarily, the Schultz & Larsen (Denmark), the Husqvarna (Sweden) and a few Browning High Powers made by FN in Belgium. Looking for previous installments of our "Behind the Bullet" series? Tried and true. The big issue with the .350 Rigby Magnum is the lack of available ammunition. Still have a 9.3 (so I guess it "won"). a good brush buster and good to 300 yards. pushes a 200-grain bullet to just more than 2000 f.p.s. I took it to Texas in 1989 and decked a nilgai at about 90 yards. The big case certainly made its reputation with the 250-grain bullets, as their sectional density gives excellent penetration on even the heavy-boned animals, and the .358 Norma can push them to a muzzle velocity of 2750 fps. In addition, for stopping the big predators of the world, it's hard to beat a suitable .35 caliber rifle. Also H&R 1871, Inc., offered single-shot rifles in .35 Whelen from 1994 to 1996. The .351 WSL did grab a bit of fame, first as a popular rifle for prison guards and then as one of the rifles used to punch a lot of holes in Bonnie and Clydes automobile (although that accolade is in question). Then come the .270s. Now, I have to go out on a limb and say that sensible elk cartridges arent all about power. Maybe I'll just get a 375 H+H instead of going the Norma route. Looking for previous installments of our "Behind the Bullet" series? My 35 Whelen will run 250gr partitions at 2700 fps with power pro 2000 powder. Shorter and more common than the magnum-length receiver needed for the .375 and .300 Holland & Holland Magnum, the Winchester Model 70s and Remington Model 721s gave a new level of performance when chambered for the new magnums. The .358 Norma Mag. The guide professed to be dumbstruck: I never saw a nilgai knocked down like that, he said, And we use some big rifles here!. The Newton was supposedly loaded, by Western Cartridge, to 2,975 fps with a 250-grain bullet, but I, for one, would want to see the chronograph reading. With modern powders the muzzle velocities can certainly beat those of the Cordite loads a century ago, especially in a modern rifle. and .32 Rem. Movement is more random in big country. Choose at least medium weight for caliber: 140 grains in 6.5mm and the lighter 7mms; 140 and 150 grains in .270s; 150 to 160 grains in faster 7mms; 165 or 180 grains in .30 calibers.

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